Is it time to change the structure of Kentucky’s high school playoffs?
If conversation on Twitter is any indication, high school sports fans and participants have a lot of feelings about how the postseason is conducted — especially in soccer.
In Kentucky, all high school boys’ and girls’ soccer teams play in a one-class system. The model used for both state tournaments is similar to the one used in basketball’s Sweet Sixteen tournaments: 16 region champions are determined from across the state. In soccer, eight of those participants host semi-state games on campus. The eight teams that advance from those games move onto the quarterfinals, from which point the games are played at a neutral site, historically in Lexington.
At the semi-state level, the state is divided into four quadrants to help alleviate travel: Regions 1-4, Regions 5-8, Regions 9-12 and Regions 13-16. What does that mean? A team from Region 9 can only ever play a team from Region 10, 11 or 12 in the first round of the state tournament, a team from Region 5 can only play teams from Regions 6, 7 and 8, etc. That means each area of the state — western Kentucky, Louisville area, Lexington/Cincinnati area and eastern Kentucky — is guaranteed two participants at state.
The competitive imbalance between Regions 13-16 and the rest of the state is evident among those in the sport, however. Since 2012 — when the regions began to more closely resemble those used in basketball — teams from Regions 13-16 have never advanced beyond the quarterfinals. Few times have they ever even been close. Since 2001, no girls’ teams and only one boys’ team from those regions — Ashland Blazer — have advanced to the semifinals.
Boys’ soccer teams from eastern Kentucky are 1-12 in quarterfinals appearances since 2001 and have been outscored 65-10. Girls’ teams are 0-12 and have been outscored 57-0.
I suggested on Tuesday that seeding should be used in soccer. I said that teams from eastern Kentucky have no business advancing beyond the first round, a crude statement that was intended as a criticism of a competition format that favors geography over competitive ability, not as an indictment of the teams or players who participate in a competition format they had no hand in creating.
I love EKY but the area has no business advancing teams beyond first round of soccer state tournaments. State ⚽️ and should be seeded. https://t.co/jV0euBpwPe
— Josh Moore (@HLpreps) October 25, 2017
I also raised the possibility of moving to a multiple-class system — as used in Tennessee and Indiana, among others — in soccer, baseball, volleyball and other sports that have historically suffered from competitive inadequacies between large and small schools. The KHSAA currently only classifies the sports of football, track and field and cross country.
If you're fast, you're fast. It doesn't matter how big or small your school. If we classify running sports, why isn't swimming classified?
— Josh Moore (@HLpreps) October 25, 2017
Imagine if UK & Asbury University were competing for the same national titles every season. That's the gap that exists in KHSAA team sports.
— Josh Moore (@HLpreps) October 25, 2017
The single-class postseason models used in baseball, soccer and volleyball are all based off the basketball tournament format. That system has worked well for the Sweet Sixteen, but should a system established in the 1940s to fit a 5-on-5 sport continue to be used for sports featuring 11-on-11 play or sports that are still in their infancy in rural areas?
The most radical postseason format change to any sport came in 2015, when the KHSAA adopted a two-weekend format for the state baseball tournament in response to efforts by Lawrence County head coach Travis Feltner, whose research supported a move to a class system for baseball. Feltner was not a fan of the compromise.
“What they’ve done here is put a Band-Aid over a gunshot wound,” Feltner told the Herald-Leader in November 2015. “ ... 82 percent of the membership (I polled) was in favor of a class system. Ultimately, they promote that they have 43 sanctioned state championships but the only one that they care about is the men’s basketball state championship. It’s frustrating. It’s nothing against basketball, but everything’s important.”
Several people chimed in with soccer format suggestions on Twitter:
@HLpreps Soccer. Seed top 4. 1 & 4 in top bracket, 2 & 3 in bottom. Only way they meet is semi's, & yes, potential 5-10 could end up in top.
— Wiser Leadership (@CoachWiser) October 26, 2017
There should be a top 16 seeded east and west of I-65 playoff with the final 4 played at the ⚽️ complex in E-Town.
— Steve Musen (@kyagstem) October 26, 2017
Soccer needs World Cup style post season. Top 4 region finishers, re-seed groups of 4, round robin. Group winners advance to State. Bam!
— Derek Barnes (@LexDerekBarnes) October 25, 2017
It's time we look at establishing classes for volleyball and soccer. There are too many lopsided matches at the regional and state levels.
— Steve Bittenbender (@freelancehack) October 25, 2017
I'd love to see a way to classify where school size is just one factor -- not the only one. Some small schools can compete with the big ones
— Steve Bittenbender (@freelancehack) October 25, 2017
State? Let’s take this back to regions and some districts. Or as you alluded eliminate those altogether. https://t.co/zCxeLN22YU
— Chris Grimm (@cristoforoUK) October 25, 2017
But I am all for this. Soccer postseason needs a completely overhaul. More competitive matches later on. https://t.co/TEnTQiHQPz
— Chris Grimm (@cristoforoUK) October 25, 2017
Classes and no districts would really help reducing lopsided games. I will volunteer my time to do it for khsaa!
— Michael Lippert (@melippert18) October 25, 2017
They had semi state in ⚾and took it away. Listen I live in eastky but I agree more on classification than state tournament bracket.
— EastKySports (@EastKySports606) October 25, 2017
Same for volleyball & baseball. Anything better than current structure. Should not be harder to win your District or Region than win state.
— Mandy Poynter (@mpoynter09) October 25, 2017
No one is taking away accomplishments.
— Edward Alan Marlowe (@dreamarlowe85) October 25, 2017
Seeding HS sports just makes sense. I don't care who (or where) teams are getting rolled.
Agreed. The https://t.co/CVbOt7VnW6 uses a mathematical approach to HS ⚽️ranking that get increasingly accurate as the season progresses.
— Steve Musen (@kyagstem) October 26, 2017
No, classing high school sports makes sense...
— Tim Bush (@TimBush43) October 25, 2017
Discussion needs to take place with KHSAA, not on twitter. Format change would allow for a better experience for everyone.
— Gary Justice (@gjustice21) October 25, 2017
Others took issue with change, bringing up travel costs and other factors as potential deterrents to seeding:
Great, you can be the person that has to drive the bus the first time Pikeville plays Marshall County in the first round.
— Jim Hunter (@LexJim1) October 26, 2017
Seeding is unfair. I went through this with tennis and the rich and elite were set up with easy draws.
— Shannon Murray (@firechickenz) October 26, 2017
Are you gonna foot the bills for the teams you wanna see travel all over the place. Some of these districts are barely keeping it going
— YourSportsEdge.Com (@YourSportsEdge1) October 25, 2017
Some offered commentary about KHSAA sports in general:
Are there states that AREN'T doing it this way? In my experience, geography drives all postseason formats. That's just the high school way.
— Jason Frakes (@kyhighs) October 25, 2017
@EastKySports606 or ... how about just draw? I agree and disagree.
— Kyle Collier (@KyleWYMT) October 26, 2017
@EastKySports606 one good thing about the current format it has helped build interest.
— Kyle Collier (@KyleWYMT) October 26, 2017
@EastKySports606 as someone who played in EKY talent/form has grown leaps and bounds. Still a long ways to go though.
— Kyle Collier (@KyleWYMT) October 26, 2017
@HLpreps Took forever to get away from sub-sectionals to current sweet 16 format celebrating all teams at school & in towns. Change is slow.
— Wiser Leadership (@CoachWiser) October 26, 2017
@HLpreps It takes administrators, ad’s, & coaches to push advisory committees and member schools to move KHSAA in best direction for teams.
— Wiser Leadership (@CoachWiser) October 26, 2017
How would you find a mutually agreed on system to rate teams for seeding?
— Don Meador (@DonnieMeador) October 25, 2017
Great point 70% of top 25 comes from region 7, 9, and 11. The other regions would have no interest in changing current system
— Andy Taylor (@ataylornky) October 25, 2017
Ohio breaks down its schools Regions and does rating system within regions.
— Grant Traylor (@GrantTraylor) October 25, 2017
Nearly three times the number of schools as WV, but it works.
it’s difficult because Lex and Lou are ahead, and your less likely to see a Cinderella in soccer than you are in BBall, but that’s how it is
— Dallas (@dallasj97) October 25, 2017
We both know it won’t happen, no one cares about soccer, kinda the reason the US isn’t in the real World Cup, sad but true
— Dallas (@dallasj97) October 25, 2017
@HLpreps we have been saying this for years. But to many people hate change because it is to hard. https://t.co/aRRZz2kMJT
— FCHS ATHLETICS (@fcthsathletics) October 25, 2017
Meanwhile some teams who play weaker schedules & have losing records advance every single year to state tourney. Completely unfair to kids.
— Mandy Poynter (@mpoynter09) October 25, 2017
KHSAA values geographic diversity over competitiveness - as stupid as that sounds (and make no mistake it sounds ridiculous)
— John Griffith (@JWGriff) October 25, 2017
Games r lopsided but we want teams to still be encouraged to play so our sport will grow. # teams 20 years ago compared to now? https://t.co/y57Hmj179C
— John O'Hara (@oharafamily6) October 25, 2017
The fact that two east ky schools will be in the elite 8 every year in socscer makes me smile. Unrelated but shows how far behind KHSAA is.
— EastKySports (@EastKySports606) October 25, 2017
Been saying this for years about baseball. The state tournament is mediocre at best for a state that routinely produces MLB prospects https://t.co/H0iHrGAT6e
— Tyler Pope (@tpope_7) October 25, 2017
No classes for soccer please. Depth not there. Would be even more blowouts in “small school” state tournament. Look at the All A. https://t.co/2H3KKXARYo
— Chris Grimm (@cristoforoUK) October 25, 2017
Some of the teams in the field wouldn’t even make it out of districts in Louisville, Northern Kentucky, or Lexington. (2/4)
— Conor Revell (@ConorRevell) October 25, 2017
same issue with KHSAA golf state. All regions get top 2 teams. Region 9 third place team out with top 7 score in entire state .
— Rob Howell (@ukhoopsfan) October 25, 2017
The Herald-Leader has reached out to the KHSAA to discuss the current state of its postseason competitions.
Josh Moore: 859-231-1307, @HLpreps
This story was originally published October 26, 2017 at 12:39 PM with the headline "Is it time to change the structure of Kentucky’s high school playoffs?."